it sure would be nice to see this game implement first person view. i know we went over and over this last time.. but since all the promises of mechwarrior5 satisfying our first person desires (and talk about MechAssault and mechwarrior being totally separate, peacefully coexisting games for that matter) didn't pan out.... i have to ask again.

since it looks like mech5 wont be out until my 6 year old is in college, how about paying just a little bit of attention to the mechwarrior fans while working on this game... I'm not asking you to make it mechwarrior... keep the single hit location and small handful of weapons... just give us a cockpit perspective, or at the very least, let us remove the mech's ass from our field of view.

i feel pretty confident that this isn't going to happen, but i still have to ask.

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

PUMA PUMA PUMA

My only concern is that MA2 keep the fast-paced brawling combat and the destructible environments of the original. Those were the central issues that made me love MA.

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

There is alot of rumors going around saying Mechassualt2 is not coming out and people are saying Microsoft is just getting people hopes ups and all this BS. But if MechAssualt2 is comming out I'm so gonna own the game.

~Reaper~

See other threads here re: MA2, including the one with all the screenies, and the interview with the lead dev.

Also, one has to wonder what good it would do for MS to "just get peoples' hopes up." Theres no money in that.

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-Meso
Spirit Cats

"A voice from heaven said unto me 'Smile, be happy, things could be worse' So I smiled and was happy and behold, things got worse."

cool!

we get to be an ankle-biter!

~~~
^^Forum Rat^^

AKA_King
DSC's resident l33t-sp34k translator

Also Known as DDM_Demonation,
or Demon Dragon

I concur, i played Mechassault and was disapointed for that fact. i used to play mw2 like that and now that i got used to the 1st person view, 3rd person downgrades my proformance.

<S>
Fireflame

In MechWarrior 2, how did you manage to kill anything in 3rd person POV without a targeting reticle?

But I do agree that 3PPOV is pretty lame for a MechWarrior game. Although, for MechAssault, that is what is needed. It's an action game, not a simulator.

I only hope that one day they make use of the Steel Battalion joysticks and give us a 'Mech simulator as well.

How can any game simulate a Mech? They don't exist. The very concept is preposterous, and claiming that one game does a better job of "simulating" a walking war machine from a war on faraway worlds in the year 30XX is a very selective interpretation of reality.

As long as I've got a 75-ton walking tank, I'll take the hovering camera drone as a POV rather than suffering with the limited field of vision that goes along with looking through the transparent windshield of a cockpit.

You want a simulation? Cool. You get a MadCat. I'll take the M1A2 Abrams and put a hole right through you with a single 120mm cannon round from just over 2 miles away.

Don't ever use the word "simulator" and "mechwarrior" in the same post again.

Its funny to see how MW freaks would sacrifice the fun fragging gameplay of MA just to conform to their twisted concept of realism.

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

I have to wonder if Day 1 ever implemented first-person view would that mean the nay-sayers suddenly start enjoying MA?

*sips his coffee*

-Bangy

I agree that first person in a Mech would just plain suck. Especially if you're in a Ragnarok and you're being attacked by an ankle biting Corvus. You would see next to nothing. And you get a much better perspective on the size of explosions and stuff in third person. Not only that, but TPS Mech games are fun just because you can see 'the Mech's ass'. Any animator can throw together a fancy looking cockpit that looks pretty much the same as all the others. It takes more skill to see your Mech in it's entirity as you are blasting away, and it proves that the programmers didn't just rip a cockpit layout from any other game that used cockpits. The games are overpriced as it is so I like to know that the game actually took some effort to make.

If you could have the options to change view that would be good.
But im sticking to mechwarrior, From what i've played and been told MA is Mechwarrior diet(Mechwarrior without the realism, wheres the flying body parts? Wheres the repairing and rearming at mechbays, whats with ammo pick ups? Mechs cant pick stuff up off the ground).

"A voice from heaven said unto me 'Smile, be happy, things could be worse' So I smiled and was happy and behold, things got worse."

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

im not surprised that some who uses the ragnarock and corvus as their example mechs in a post would prefer third preson view..

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

Its the MA forum, you self-righteous ass. Someone might also mention the Grinder game type later, or talk about River City - a place that clearly doesn't really exist because it wasn't in MW2. Try not to get your panties in an XBox-induced knot.

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-Meso
Spirit Cats

i wasn't passing judgment... just an observation.

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

Mesozoic, keep it civil and refrain from name-calling please.

Thanks

-Bangy

just to keep the self righteous ball rolling... I'm also not surprised to see the guy with the mechwarrior dark age faction for an avatar jump to the defense of MechAssault.

again, just an observation.

i don't have a problem with new content or even a new direction for mechwarrior... as long as makes the game better. I personally feel that MechAssault and mechwarrior dark age a watered down, simplified versions of the originals. I didn't say they weren't fun, but they are certainly not substitutes for the real thin, and unfortunately... in the case of MechAssault.. the only substitute available.

i wasn't pointing out that the mechs he mentioned are non canon, just that they were both introduced in MechAssault, (actually.. the Corvus isn't a new mech at all.. just a new name for a copy of an existing mech so they can claim to have more content than they actually have).

for as long as they continue to make this pos in don't make any mechwarrior games, i will continue to post here and ask for this to be more like mechwarrior than it currently is. I understand that they are different games, but since this is the only battletech based video game anyone is making... it gets my attention.

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

The Av is there to irk purists. No other reason. Because its just a game. But thanks for noticing.

You can talk all you want about adding MW to MA. It won't work. Post away. Don't believe me? Post here night and day about the evils of the 3rd person view until release, then see if anything changed.

But if you come to the MA forum and insult MA players for *gasp* - liking MechAssault, expect a response. A negative one. Every time. The MW4 forum would give no less to MA players.

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

There is nothing wrong with MechAssault as a Action game. That's what it was designed to be, and that is all it will ever be. Somehow you guys aren't grasping that the fates of MechAssault and MechWarrior are somewhat entwined. Microsoft doesn't publish games for fun. It's a business.

You are welcome to criticize all you want without the slanderous comments aimed at other players. If you can't manage that, you should not respond to posts. That goes for people on each side of the issue.

i tried to look at them as separate games, and judge each on its own merit. even doing that i still had a lot of problems with mechassault. now that this is the only mech game being made at all.... i have to treat them as one and the same. Microsoft has apparently decided to... so i will too.

speaking of microsft... lets have a round of applause for the decision handed down by the European Commission... it's a good start.

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

when i initially made requests for features in mechassault, during its production, the developers said... this isn't mechwarrior, its s separate game, the things you want will be in mech5. well... this isn't a separate mech game.. it is the only mech game. so whatever features i want in a mech game, i am going to ask for them in this one. I'm not quite sure who put you in charge of what i can and cat request, or where i can post.. but I'd appreciate it if you would stop.

as far as the Eu decision goes.. i agree with it 100% i think fine is too low in fact. how i feel it pertains to mechwarrior is this... Microsoft bought up a lot of good PC game franchises. now they are just going to sit on them. rather than publish them as PC games, they are going to make piss poor versions of them for xbox... of course, they are going to make damn sure that no one else has a chance to release them as PC games either. it that isn't anti-competitive... i don't know what is. If you think it's just mechwarrior for PC that has been shelved.. take a stroll over the microsoft games website... how many upcoming PC titles are listed? Now, how many of those absent titles do you think they are going to offer up for sale?

they already have total control of our computer rooms and offices, now that want our living rooms.

perhaps you could see the big picture a little clearer if you would pry your lips of their collective asses and back up a bit.

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

Answers, in order:

Whether or not there is a MW5 does not change the fact that MA and MW are separate.

Read. I told you to post away. All I said was that it wouldn't make a difference. I also told you that if you flame people for liking MA on the MA forum, I'm going to call you on it and point out your errors every time.

MS is not "sitting on" the license, they are actively using the license, just not in a form that you personally like. The idea that holding the license without releasing a particular game on a particular platform is anti-competitive is completely false with regards to US and International law. The Mechwarrior / BT intellectual property is not PC- or console-specific. Which raises the point that, as you yourself said, you don't know what is actually anti-competitive. By your logic another company could release a BT game for the Gamecube tomorrow, since MS is not doing so.

And in case you haven't been paying attention, the shift from PC to console has been going on everywhere in the industry. Go to any local game store and look at how much shelf space is dedicated to console rather than PC. You're getting mad at MS for doing what every other publishing company is doing.

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

you're right... microsoft always plays fair. courts all over the world are just picking on them.

mechassault is still "mechwarrior for dummies".

well i guess i just answered my own questions as to why anyone likes it. so ill move on. feel free to argue with yourself though.. you did it fairly effectively going back and forth as to whether or not mechwarrior and mechassault are the same thing in your previous post.

nice manipulation of semantics by the way, when you want to separate the two you use their specific names.. when you want them to be one and the same you lump them together as battletech games. which... they are are currently making only one of.. thanks for reinforcing my point in the end there.

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

"One license makes multiple games" doesn't even seem like a semantic argument to me. Where's the confusion? As far as I can tell, Mesozoic brought up the BattleTech/Mechwarrior argument because of the frankly inane anti-competitive point. Like, as long as Microsoft isn't simultaneously pushing a BattleTech simulator, real-time strategy game, aerospace sim, Mac port, RPG, 2D and 3D fighting game, platform shooter and breakfast cereal, then they're just keeping the man down.

Was that the anti-competitive point, or did I read it incorrectly?

no, and i believe i was clear on this.. if not the first time, then the second.... as i pointed out, this isn't a phenomenon specific to the battletech franchise. if you don't believe me look for yourself... http://www.microsoft.com/games/pc/default.aspx

3 upcoming PC games listed.

you don't have to agree with this point... just try to understand it.

microsoft has ownership a lot of game franchises. games that were currently previously on PC, among other platforms. After attaining ownership of said titles they have apparently made the decision to publish them only on a piece or proprietary hardware, running proprietary software. Others, they choose not to publish at all, but fully intend to retain the license. They may not make any money in doing this... but they are satisfied in knowing that at least no one else will make any money off them either.

Now, were Microsoft to decide that its next version of windows would only run software they published, everyone would cry foul. they are well aware of that fact. So they take a PC, paint it black with a green x on the top and call it a game system. sure.. all it does at launch is play games. then later it is also a media player... i don't feel i am going too far in imagining it being a web browser in the future, or a word processor, or running finance software.

lets all try to remember that bundling those items with windows is what people are up in arms about in the first place... one step better than bundling is making a PC that will ONLY run their software. at what point do we admit the xbox is a personal computer... I've ripped one open and looked inside... and i can verify that it most certainly is... albeit a personal computer where you have very little room to make changes, either in hardware or software... but that's what their end goal is anyway, in my opinion. When all is said and done, if they get their way, they will get a cut of every game published.

of course, i don't think they can pull it off... Sony isn't going to just step aside and let microsoft take over the console market.

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

Okay, I don't understand your point. Is Microsoft trying to dominate the console game market, or are they trying to sell proprietary PCs that only run proprietary software? Do one, or do both. What is the connection between a proprietary PC and cornering Sony out of the market? Neither computers nor consoles are so extravagantly expensive -- you can buy both for the price of a higher end iPod -- that I see any point to such a torturous end-run strategy.

If Microsoft's goal is to sell more copies of Money or Excel, then their current business model, where they write more versions to support more platforms, seems to be working fine, as opposed to the alternative, where they build a new platform to run their own software. What exactly do you think they're ultimately trying to push onto people? What player is being pushed out of the market?

>3 upcoming PC games listed.

I can't get onto the site any more, but I think it was like 7 listed for the Xbox. I didn't find this any scarier than any other developer on the market.

>Others, they choose not to publish at all, but fully intend to retain the license.

This is the case with every license that doesn't have a sequel in the works right now. There are no Wing Commander, Heavy Gear, MULE or Freespace games being put out. I attribute this more to "No one really wanting to pay money to use the license" more than "Evil conglomerate hoarding the license so that they can rest easy with the knowledge that no developer will ever be able to use the license for the power of good. Muahahahaha." Who do you see dying to use the BattleTech license? Electronic Arts? The guys who killed Motor City Online and Earth and Beyond in favor of more Sims? Activision, who doesn't develop games any more? What Microsoft licenses do you see being purposely withheld from people who would do something with it?

When Microsoft buys up Sonic, Mario, Zelda and Final Fantasy, maybe then I'll think, "I should have listened to Salvatoris," but until then, sheesh. When I see Microsoft using the BattleTech license to make MechAssault, I assume this is because they want to make lots of money by selling MechAssault. When they don't make MW5 at the same time, I assume it's because they don't want to the people to build a second team. But selling lots of copies of MechAssault seems like a completely believable plan, especially when it, you know, worked.

>>When Microsoft buys up Sonic, Mario, Zelda and Final Fantasy.....

it isnt that far off..

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=663

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

That link is 18 months old. Overreact much? Your anti-trust argument is without merit and your attitude towards MS is simply sour grapes for not getting your game. If they released some MW2 clone with updated graphics, you'd be sending ale and whores to PAINGOD's house.

The irony is that you're probably posting this tripe from a machine running Windows. The other irony is that MS's entrance into the console market introduced a huge competition that sent console hardware prices dropping across all three major vendors (MS, Sony, and Nintendo). Nowadays a PS2 costs approximately "three strands of twine."

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

i don't see how the fact that that buyout happened 18 months ago (September 2002) makes it any less of a fact... and again.. I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not microsoft is anticompetitive.. there are enough intelligent, informed people on the planet who already know that, for something to be done about it.

it's clear that you lack the ability to understand the issues involved, a fact which you underline by finding it ironic that i am posting from a windows machine, rather than understanding that is the root of the problem... not just a comical side note.

furthermore... you are obviously incapable of having a civilized discussion about something you don't agree on. you accuse me of flaming people.. but the only flaming i have done has been since you called me an ass. your problem is that if you don't agree with someone else's opinion you seem to believe that somehow makes it less valid than your own.

are my posts motivated by sour grapes, in response to Microsoft shelving the mechwarrior series? yes they are.. but that doesn't mean i don't believe what i am saying. as far as attacking people for liking mechassault.. that didn't happen. i simply wanted to point out that someone who's introduction to the battletech universe was through mechassault would naturally think it was the best way to play. kinda like a cat would rather lick it's own but than take a bath.. it's the only way they know.

as far as your darkage avatar goes.. i enjoy the game, i have hundreds of pieces and play regularly in competition. i do however believe it is lesser in almost every way than classic battletech. it's battletech light.. the same as mechassault is mechwarrior light.

and for the record, i believe that mechwarrior4 is a better game than mech2 was... I'm sure you will find some irony there as well.

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

Again, all this comes from "I didn't get my game."

MW players have gotten so many games for so long that it never occurred to them that the games weren't actually owed to them.

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

so.. you'll actually just argue with yourself, huh.

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

Give him a banana folks for he wins my chimp award of the month.

"Again, all this comes from "I didn't get my game" MW players have gotten so many games for so long that it never occurred to them that the games weren't actually owed to them."

I personally am glad that BATTLETECH games are still being released on a major platform of any type. However I am one of the quiet masses that loves the snot out of a Mechwarrior title. Don't be so quick to lump all the hardcore MW players or for the matter any as you so did in this last statement. I like MA because it keeps my attention span for a multiplayer game just like MPBT:3025 while missing a lot of mechwarrior additives. MPBT wasn't just like Mechwarrior and it was titled different. Did that stop it from hard core players loving it? No. However previous grievences already aired bugged me about MA ie. power ups and a limited arsenal. It takes away the diversity which Mechwarrior or Mechcommander offered. It's really just a small change in the scheme of things getting rid of powerups and it really doesn't change the scope of the game. I like many others are not saying we want MA to be Mechwarrior. We just want something bareable since this is all we got. Back to the begining though, MW players don't think jack is owed to them. But as long as they keep pumping the stuff out we'd buy it. That's just money right there baby. So of course now if they stopped we'd still be hungry. What happens to all those MA babies out there who are die hard fans after 2 comes out and they never release MA again and just do Mechwarrior titles, what then? You think they'd be like "hey throw us a bone". Either way I'm buying MA2 for the simple fact that it's Battletech and the other is that I can kick some punk arse with a good group of people I met through battletech years ago. Battletech changed my life man! (sniffle) ROFL Any how here's your golden banana.

This rant brought to you by Suburban Auto, makers of the trunk monkey.

Lonegopher
"Ah behold, the power of cheese"

MW players don't think jack is owed to them.

Yeah, see, thats wrong. The ones here do. If you were here for the discussions that went on when MA1 was in development, then you would know what I'm talking about.

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

i was here.. i don't agree.

i asked for first person view in the crimson skies forum too.. and i would ask for it in any game that let me pilot a vehicle. it has nothing to do with felling that it's owed to me.. just asking for a option that would make the game more enjoyable

by the way... just because you don't agree, doesn't necessarily make the other guy "wrong".

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

Would ya like another banana?

"Yeah, see, thats wrong. The ones here do. If you were here for the discussions that went on when MA1 was in development, then you would know what I'm talking about."

I'm one of the ones here and don't think anythings owed to me so how in the blue hell could I be wrong. What there might be six people heck lets splurge, a dozen people on these boards that think something is owed to them, so what. And "ook ook" I was here for the first round too. I'm done with this particular discussion. I wasn't looking for a verbal barb with you Mesozoic, I was just letting you know there were others here of a diffrent opinion than, EVERY HARDCORE PLAYER HAS THE WORLD OWED TO THEM.

Lonegopher
"Ah behold, the power of cheese"

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

You said, "the ones here do". not quantifying that by saying some of the ones here do, or a certain percentage of the ones here do....

now you have had a few responses by people stating that they do not feel anything is owed to them. Since they posted on this forum, i would say that certainly puts them in to the group, "the ones here". and that... would make your previous statement, which was posted as a fact rather than an opinion, incorrect... or as you would say... you are wrong.

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

Wow, its almost as if people aren't willing to admit when they've acted as if something was owed to them, isn't it.

Yes, yes it is.

For example, your words (you, personally, Salvatoris) have plainly indicated that you feel MS owes you your game. That's true no matter what you say now.

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

If you think i honestly believe that The Microsoft corporation is somehow obligated to make a game specifically for me.... then you are a bigger fool than you seem to think i am. The entire idea is moronic.

Rather than point out to me why you don't think it would be a good idea to have first person view in the game, (that is what my original post was a request for) you want to attack my character and my motives for posting. I suppose, if i got in to an argument where i didn't have a valid point, or even a coherent thought to post on the subject, i might do the same.

http://www.DeathDealerMercenaries.com

Now we get to see if DSC will chide Sal for insulting me.

----------------------------
If you think i honestly believe that The Microsoft corporation is somehow obligated to make a game specifically for me
----------------------------

I do. And when they told you "no," and gave you reasons that I have no obligation to repeat here, you went off on them about betraying MW players. Which is to say, betrayal by not seeking the Salvatoris seal of approval.

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

Quote
How can any game simulate a Mech? They don't exist. The very concept is preposterous, and claiming that one game does a better job of "simulating" a walking war machine from a war on faraway worlds in the year 30XX is a very selective interpretation of reality. As long as I've got a 75-ton walking tank, I'll take the hovering camera drone as a POV rather than suffering with the limited field of vision that goes along with looking through the transparent windshield of a cockpit. You want a simulation? Cool. You get a MadCat. I'll take the M1A2 Abrams and put a hole right through you with a single 120mm cannon round from just over 2 miles away. Don't ever use the word "simulator" and "mechwarrior" in the same post again. Its funny to see how MW freaks would sacrifice the fun fragging gameplay of MA just to conform to their twisted concept of realism.

"A voice from heaven said unto me 'Smile, be happy, things could be worse' So I smiled and was happy and behold, things got worse."

And you can't puch a hole through a madcat with an m1a2, a madcat can be hit with a 1 ton shell and survive.

What does this mean? What fires a "1 ton shell"? How would any portion of a MadCat - let alone its legs or transparent cockpit - survive a heavy shell travelling at any kind of speed?

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Your concept of reality is completely screwed up. And yet you want MA2 to conform to it. At some point someone decided that BT was somehow even approximately realistic, and now people demand that "realism," and anything else is "unrealistic."

Its not about reality versus unreality or even action versus simulation. Its about the completely unrealistic MW concept versus the completely unrealistic MA concept.

-------------------------
-Meso
Spirit Cats

"How can any game simulate a Mech? They don't exist"

What you should all be asking is... "how can the dev sim the right aspects of the game just enough to make players BELIEVE they are actually piloting a mech".

Remember the mech scenes of the defence of Zion in the Matrix Revolutions? I know, and you know those were obviously not real. But they looked so real in sight and sound and mechanical function that I could believe while watching that those dudes were piloting mechtype vehicles. It is all a state of mind. Mechwarrior 3 did the same thing for me. So... it is possible. M$ just failed to go that extra mile in certain areas that the Mech 3 devs went, which is why Mech 4 didn`t have the same immersive effect, on me.

Mechwarrior.... Has Evolved! Bout freaking time!!!!

PUMA PUMA PUMA

>Answer:
>Nope. Bottom line ... the gameplay in my opinion was pretty much the same except MA had more baddies to whack.

I disagree. As far as strict definitions go, I don't believe that you can make a simulator for anything that doesn't actually exist. I wouldn't call a movie a documentary unless it was covering a real subject, and the same thing goes for simulations. TIE Fighter, Independence War, Mechwarrior and Steel Battalion are all just action games to me, with different levels of control, systems and graphic effects.

I was going to make a list of things that really separate MA from MW4 for me, like armor locations, ammunition, the three-weapon system in MA, HUD display information and so on, but ultimately the only one that's really make or break for me is the power up system, where health recharges and weapon boosts appear after you kill 'Mechs. This wrecks anything like suspension of disbelief for me, and also dramatically changes the gameplay dynamic; if you took powerups out of MA then I would allow that the core gameplay of the two games was basically the same. Heck, if there's a multiplayer option in MA to play without powerups (I don't know), then I'll yield the point.

But I don't think it's limited to MW4. I think all the Mechwarrior games, plus Virtual World and MPBT3025, have been variations on the original theme, which is only natural. Whenever you start with a giant mecha and give it guns, you'll tend to end up with a certain kind of game. It's not really something lends itself to wildly different interpretations.

i dont know about yall but i reloaded mech 3 just so i could play a mech game in 3rd person and get used to it again ............. come to think about it the absent pov button was 1 of the things that i missed in mech 4( i dont remmeber if they reintroduced it in bk nght or mercs guess ill have to reload all 3 again )
i do agreee on the principle that 3rd person perspective does change the way the game is played but hey its just a video game thats part of the fun.i hope they do introduce 1st/3rd pov choice in ma2 it would be nice to have that choice again tho.

p.s. they should take out the armor replenishing in ma2 and start making use of mfbs but i didnt really see a problem with weapon powerups since the game was a bastard child anyways and weapons were assigned ( i mean comeon really can u fit 2 gause rifles into an uziel using battletech rules i tried and the resulting mech was useless because of its lack of armor and slow speed)
the game is afterall an action game not a sim
( its still crap )

...... and what they found was just a statue standing where the statue got me hi !!!

'Mech repair bays should be includedin MA2, and customisable weapons loadouts as well, like the ones in MW4V.

"A voice from heaven said unto me 'Smile, be happy, things could be worse' So I smiled and was happy and behold, things got worse."

i'm a little late geting back to you on this one, but i acctually don't rememebr. when i go back to play Mw2 again and again for the fun of it i use 1st. its all thanks to mw3 basically.


flame